A Conversation with Rita Phetmixay
Rita PhetMixay, founder of Healing Out Laod
Photo: Courtesy
Sabaitide: Hi Rita! Good to see you.
Rita: Good to see you too!
Sabaitide: Can you tell us about Healing Out Lao’d? What is the mission and story behind HOL?
Rita: Well, that is a long story that I will share in a medium way. The inception of Healing Out Lao'd was created in 2019, it started off as a podcast. Before that, it was just an idea, an idea that came to my mind, because, you know, I'm Lao Isaan, and both my parents were refugees from Laos and Thailand. And throughout my lifetime, there hasn't been a lot of mainstream media that highlights our stories, even in Asian American spaces, but let me backtrack. I grew up in North Carolina, but I was born in California, but even in North Carolina, there were not a lot of refugees that were in the area, in rural North Carolina, in the south. So, growing up, I didn't have a Lao community that I could really go and hang out with every weekend, and there was about maybe five family.
So you can say that I was in a drought, per se, of my community. And my dad was intentional about keeping our family pretty tight knit and small. So the journey to create Healing out Lao'd is really an ode to my younger self, to be able to 1) highlight more Lao diaspora voices, descendants of refugees of the Secret Civil War in Laos, give us a platform where we can highlight our stories, where we can hear ourselves, and to have the intersection focusing on mental health. Mental health has been super stigmatized. Not only in our community, there's a lot of others, but particularly in the Lao diaspora spaces. We don't even have the privilege of knowing how to access mental health and resources on that.
I wanted to create a hub that was specifically for and by the Lao diaspora. Because a lot of times, mental health is also in where a lot of us who are descendants of the Secret Civil War, live in the West, and we're met with a lot of Western practices. And it's not that we can't benefit from Western mental health, but I wanted to specifically name our experiences in order to heal, in order to move forward, in order to get to a point where we don't have to only identify as children of refugees, that we are much more than that. So, yeah, Healing Out Lao'd started off as a podcast, and later expanded into more of a mental health hub for the Lao diaspora and the greater Southeast Asian refugee diaspora as well, because I've been getting a lot of feedback too from, for example, Hmong folks or Khmai folks, Vietnamese folks, folks who we have a lot of overlapping stories of that era, the Secret War, the Vietnam War era, the Khmai Rouge, all of that. It's slowly and surely expanding from podcasts, to workshops and trainings, to facilitations, to now in person wellness retreats.
Sabaitide: Oh, that looks so exciting, by the way, your Joshua Tree retreat.
Rita: Yeah, I'm really excited about it. I've been doing a lot of work on the ground to make sure it gets to the people that it needs to get to in our community and that would benefit. So that's what I'm working on right now.
Sabaitide: I might ask more about that later, but the next question is, what do more people need to know about the Lao diaspora?
Rita: One is that, people need to know that we exist and they need to know about our history. That needs to be normalized. You know, just by virtue of the US hiding the entire secret war, it's called a secret war for a reason. Because for nine years straight, the US didn't want the American or the general public to know about their horrific bombing campaign that saw our people as disposable in Laos. So I want people to know that we have a voice, we have a story, we are kind people, we're chill people, relaxed, Sabai Sabai, and we're so much more than just this war that we're tied to. We have culture, our food is so flavorful. And just the way that we continue to build community in different parts outside of Laos has really shown our true resilience as a community. That's one thing I hope – that other people outside of Lao folks come to understand is our resilience and our true heart to connect with other people.
Sabaitide: How are you involved in your community, and in what ways can other Lao people get connected?
Rita: One, you can get connected when you come to the retreat! Absolutely, I mean, the retreat serves as a hub. Because, you know, there hasn't been a national or international Lao convening for a few years because of the pandemic. And a lot of us crave community, that's why we go to these events. And because they haven't happened, it's unfortunate that a lot of people have had to resort to just being online – which is okay. But we also need to be in person and in relationship with each other. So the retreat serves as a way to introduce those who may feel intimidated, like, “I don't even know where to start,” well, start here. It’s an intimate space where there's not hundreds of people – we actually have less than 10 who you can really cherish and build lifelong relationships with.
For me, I got involved in the community at a young age, and I actually started researching. Because my dad was so passionate about making sure we heard about our Lao stories, he would sit us down at the dinner table every night and talk about a different story. Then three hours later, we're like, “okay, Dad, it's time to go to sleep.” But, you know, he was just so passionate, and I feel really privileged that I was able to get that information and those enriching – and a lot of times traumatic – stories from my dad. So I was just curious after that I was like, why am I the only Lao person in my school besides my siblings? Who are Lao people? How come we just go to these family events, you know, get together as the Boun and the Bacis? And I didn’t understand why I couldn't find our history anywhere online.
So I actually started researching Lao people. I found a few. One of them whom I just reconnected with more recently. I think yesterday or a couple of days ago, Dr. Phitsamay. She is the first Lao graduate of her EdD program. I actually emailed her when I was back in high school. And I was like, “I want to connect with you. I haven't met any other Lao people who are doing community work.” And again, there's not a lot of people that were at all, like 15 years ago. She did not hesitate. She jumped on the phone with me. I had a call with her and she learned about my story.
Eventually, I got connected to other Lao diaspora folks, just by virtue of going to different conferences. I presented at conferences. I went to UCLA for Asian American Studies and I started doing more research. I made a film. I made a film about my dad's story that allowed me to travel to different places and to different Lao national conventions where they also showed my film, and got to meet other organizers there as well.
So that was where my journey came, but I feel like it really started when I went and moved to LA because in North Carolina there's not huge, Lao diaspora population that also has resources. We're very low resourced, when it comes to Asian American movements, or just people who validate our histories. So when I came to UCLA Asian American studies program, it was a hub of resources that was resource galore. Everybody was so supportive and wanting me to do what I did, which was a lot of connecting with other Lao-American artists and creators and movements. So every single time I got a chance, I would travel. I would be intentional about who I would connect with in that region, like in DC, connecting with Lao restaurant owners or other people who lived in DC at that time. If I went to Hawaii, or Florida, or Fresno, I would always be like, “Okay, who can I connect with?” That would help me either uplift or continue to uplift our community, or help me do the work that I'm doing right now. It kind of all synthesized to what Healing Out Lao'd is – a huge hub of community support. So yeah, I've been in and out of the community, building relationships ever since high school. I’ve been inspired by my dad and his own wants for us to give back to our community.
Sabaitide: I love your story, and how you're brave enough to reach out to someone you look up to. That's so awesome!
Rita: She reminded me, I did not even remember that conversation! She's like, “Yeah, I remember when you called me when you were just in high school.” I was like, “I did? So brave! Wow!”
Sabaitide: Can you tell us more about how HOL is connecting the bridge between mental health and war trauma for Lao people?
Rita: Yes. And that's a big question that is deeply rooted in what I do. So, Healing Out Lao'd, I see as a politicized healing space. It's intentional in us naming the war. Because when we name things, they become real. They become part of our stories. And it's healing to know that there is somebody else who didn't hear about the Secret War, but was just impacted like you, and that could really have someone feel really affirmed and finally validated for the things that they didn't know took place years ago. Healing Out Lao'd, is really – with my trainings too, as somebody who's taken and has a master's in Asian American Studies – is taking understanding of political movements, particularly with the Lao refugee diaspora, and [the effects of] how they have landed in the United States, and [the effects of] that experience in itself from being displaced from an entire region that you used to call home, and moving to a foreign area. And to finally make it somehow, survived – but then you have another marathon to run, which is, how do I navigate this new system with this new language? With children? I've never been a parent before. Some of us are still reuniting with our family members who got lost in the refugee camps.
Those are the stories that are part of our mental health history. Part of Healing Out Load is asking: How do I bridge that? It’s by providing context to why we are experiencing depression and anxiety symptoms, two of the highest and most prevalent mental health symptoms in mental health. It doesn't come from just, “Oh, I just have anxiety because I just walk into the store and don't know how to talk to people.” No, it's rooted and so deeply rooted in the war. What we're seeing in Palestine today is a similar trajectory, with the bombs that are dropped and airstrikes that are happening in Palestine that are reminding children: how do you recover after your whole village has blown up? How do you recover? How do you even fathom that your people are a target and being who you are is disposable. That in itself.
Think about mental health and social work, we take the person in an environment. It's not pathological, “Okay, this person has depression, and that means they have A, B, and C symptoms of anxiety.” They have heart palpitations or racing thoughts or excessive worry, it's not, it's not, it's deep. That’s where Healing Out Lao'd is able to bridge and say: we have mental health issues because of the war. And because of the war, then there's intergenerational trauma, because of intergenerational trauma, then we can finally connect, why us as children of refugees were told lies that no war existed, that we just landed here, some of us have never gotten that history. Some of us hide behind other ethnic groups, because they don't even know themselves. Like, how do I say that I'm Lao when there's so much trauma with being Lao. So I might say I'm Thai. I may say I'm Vietnamese, because you don't know. Your parents, they didn't take any ethnic studies course and know how to name you know, Lao and proud. They didn't have access to that. So they just figured it out.
But again, because I have had a good intense dad growing up, there was no way that I couldn't be Lao. It was just like written on your head. It's like, when you're coming to the household, you are Lao. So that's why I feel like I have a unique position when it comes to community work and making sure that people know that it's okay to be who you are, be Lao, and to understand how to navigate that experience. And also to feel empowered, that we have survived a whole war. That's not a lot of people. Just by virtue of being who we are, resilience is political. So now, how do we connect it back to: how do I help myself regulate my nervous system? When I'm getting triggered by fireworks, when I'm getting triggered by substance addiction in my family, gambling addiction.. Because these are repercussions of war.
We have to connect the two, they are not siloed. That's the power of again, naming a unique experience, particularly that plagued a whole community. Once we're able to name that, then we could finally be able to release any tension or misunderstandings and understand – this is real. It's not just a made up story. It's not just me waking up from a bad dream, or it can feel like it, but it's real, this happened to us. So once we're able to name it, then we could finally heal and move forward.
Sabaitide: How has the war trauma affected different generations? Like you mentioned, intergenerational trauma? Can you tell us how your generation and your parents' generation might have experienced this and heal differently?
Rita: Absolutely. Different generations come with different struggles, different plights. You know, when I think about our parents' generation, they were just trying to figure out how to speak English. They were learning how to survive, they were learning, “How am I going to make my next meal? How am I going to pay rent when welfare has only given us a $800 check and rent was $600? These are destitute situations. And on top of that, like they don't have time to be crying and whining, they just don't. But that's why there's also a lot of substance addiction in our communities, because of the pain that happened from the war. It's emotionally too painful sometimes to revisit those memories. So, people use substances for self medication. With that particular generation, I could see it's our parents, particularly learning how to survive, but because they're in survival mode, there’s lack of empathy for children, lack of ability to self soothe for themselves. Then there's projection of, if I could go through this, why can't you? Why can't you just survive? Why can't you just get it together?
So there's that disconnection between the generations of the folks who, you know, first wave or 1.5, even. First wave of immigrants are first generation immigrants. Well, let me backtrack first, first wave of refugees. Our parents' generation, there's like three separate waves in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and then maybe early 90s, but we're thinking about collectively the first who, as adults, were displaced, as in our parents, so they struggled with survival for us. And as children who are born in the States, whether it's United States, Canada, France, Australia, Germany, New Zealand, a lot of us struggle with emotional regulation, or codependency, which has a lot to do with people pleasing behaviors, seeking validation from serving other people, and dismissing or invalidating your own feelings. Because, you know, as humans, we all need to feel safe, emotionally. Physically, of course, but emotionally as well, and to feel connected as part of our human experience. So when our parents don't even feel safe to us, and part of the way that we've learned how to survive as humans in general is to connect, and we don't find that connection; we can overcompensate by overdoing it, people pleasing, or pleasing the oppressor, you know, if you can't win, if you can't beat them, join them.
A lot of our community members, particularly in the millennial generation, have had to dismiss themselves, to reject their identity, reject culture. Because black and white thinking happens. And a lot of times, when you’re in survival mode, emotionally, you're not able to see the nuance, that I can be Lao and proud. But there's also different things in our communities that I'm not particularly proud of. Then I see Gen Z, them being able to talk more about their feelings and being able to have more access to political conversations. That takes a lot of inner work to get to a place where you're not subjecting yourself anymore to the oppressor. That takes a lot of work, to be able to say, “I'm not gonna settle for this anymore. Our parents went through enough, I'm not gonna settle for violence. I'm not going to settle for mediocrity.” As a millennial myself, I'm very proud of the Gen Z Lao diaspora population. You see a lot more movements happening because they're able to reach that certain level of self actualization. But our parents, literally starting from scratch, like my parents, they came here in the States, they only started with 50 cents, like 20, 25 Baht and the clothes on their back. So, again, different struggles, different tears, different situations that, again, definitely have different types of outcomes for each generation.
Sabaitide: Like, for my family, no one ever talked about it. So I found out through the internet.
Rita: The secret war?
Sabaitide: Through the internet, yeah. I'm a millennial, and they didn't teach this in school. They teach you world history and US history, but even when we went through the Vietnam War, that was like, the week before the AP exam and they didn't go into it that much.
Rita: Right? They don't even give us just a paragraph. I remember getting so emotional when I saw Laos in a history book, because it was for the first time that other people were also reading what I'm reading. Like my white colleagues or non Lao colleagues, they're all reading that part of the chapter, and I was like, hey, that's me. That's, that's me. I remember talking to my AP History teacher or something like that. I was just like, “Oh, yeah, that's part of my story”,, and I don't think she fully understood it. But just to even see that in a book that everyone else is reading can be so healing because finally your story's getting validated. But that's mediocre, right? So bare minimum, like really one line? Who wrote this book?
Sabaitide: How can you encourage others to heal out loud?
Rita: Yeah, I feel like everyone has their own routine of healing out lao’d. But what I encourage is for folks to look inward, especially folks in my generation, millennials, and to recognize who that younger person was, and what they needed, and how do we really be there for them? Instead of being critical, instead of being mean or harsh? And we're not coddling, it's not about coddling, but it's really about affirming your younger self and recognizing that they too have a story. And
Healing out loud can look like going to therapy. That’s typical, but going to therapy, right? Seeking out support, knowing that you don't have all the answers, and that's okay. It could just be reaching out to a friend, you know, we're not mind reader's. We don't know what you're going through unless you reach out. But also, if you're the person that is getting reached out to by somebody who's struggling, also, how do you practice empathy? How do you practice compassion, and redirect people to more professional support? If you're not equipped to handle their level of mental distress, that’s why there are therapists. That's why I'm trained as a therapist, to be able to handle that.
Also access the internet. I feel like there's so much more than we had growing up, so much more content, and stories that highlight our community's resilience, and triumph. These are things that you can do on a daily basis to be able to support yourself and to also help destigmatize mental health as a whole.
Sabaitide: Thank you so much. What is something you are looking forward to this year for HOL and how can our readers support you?
Rita: Yes, so I talked about this earlier, but I have an upcoming retreat at Joshua Tree. That's at the end of March, March 22 through 24th. That's about two and a half months away. I would love folks to come to it if you identify as a Lao diaspora woman and/or femme. There's a few spots I have left to book. That's one way to support.
Another way is to listen to the podcast. I think a lot of folks are still trying to understand what a podcast is, because they’ve probably never heard of what that is or what podcasts do. It's a radio show that you can listen to and hear people's perspectives, and intimate conversation. That's really what it is, I'm having intimate conversations with a lot of folks in the Lao diaspora who have done a lot of great work, whether it's healing work, artistic work, creative work, what have you. It's going to be a journey, emotionally, to listen to those stories. And I've already gotten so much feedback from people who have listened to the podcast, saying they did not realize how much they needed it until they started listening. It's one of those vibes.
And, yeah, continue to promote Healing Out Lao'd. Share the work, the content, with your family members, your friends, even if you're not Lao. This is about supporting and being an ally too, not only being a good friend, but really, truly being able to be intentional. Like, “Hey, I know that this community exists, they matter to me. And I want to hear more of their story so that I'm not ignorant, so I'm informed.” When you start to listen to our stories, you're actually able to see us as your fellow humans. We’re not just a passing thought. So I think that's important for folks who are trying to build allyships or accomplice-ship with the Lao community.
Sabaitide: Thank you so much for talking to us and I'm looking forward to your podcasts and to more of what you're doing online. I love your posts, by the way.
Rita: Oh, thank you Alyssa. Appreciated! I hope that they do land because it comes from the heart and hopefully people are really understanding the importance of each post.
Sabaitide: Alright thank you so much.
Contact
Instagram: @healingoutlaod
Website: https://healingoutlaod.org/welcome/
